Ran across this interesting piece this morning promoting Al-Anon as an alternative to divorce for people married to alcoholics.
Is this news? Not really, but I tell you about it for two reasons: first, because I admire and respect the wonderful work Al-Anon does; second, because my anecdotal experience offers reason for caution. Let’s take them in order.
Al-Anon is a 12-step program just like Alcoholics Anonymous. Here’s what the article says about the strength of Al-Anon for family members of alcoholics: “[T]he people you will find in the Al-Anon meeting rooms understand, as perhaps few others can, exactly how you feel. They have been there too, but they have discovered that they can find contentment and even happiness, whether the alcohoic is still drinking or not.”
Al-Anon recommends that you attend at least six meetings before you decide whether Al-Anon is approprate for you. As the group says, “There are no dues and fees in Al-Anon and, as an old saying goes, -If after six meetings you decide that Al-Anon is not for you, we will gladly refund your misery.'”
Now the caution. Al-Anon really isn’t focused on stopping your spouse from drinking. It’s more about achieving happiness independent of the behavior of others. And that’s probably the right focus. At least in my anecdotal experience, getting your alcoholic spouse to leave the bottle alone is no panacea for your marriage. In fact, if anything, it’s the opposite.
I am intrigued at the number of divorces I see occurring soon after one of the spouses has stopped drinking. One of the spouses has been hanging on and putting up with that alcoholic for years. Finally, their husband or wife, for whatever reason, stops. Dry. Hallelujah, right? A new chance for this troubled marriage, right?
Maybe so, but a lot of them come see me, and it’s usually the non-drinking spouse who is the leaver. How come? Here are my guesses:
1. Now the non-drinking spouse knows the (formerly) drinking spouse will be able to make it, so there’s not quite so much guilt attached to leaving.
2. In their former drinking days, the non-drinking spouse could blame all things wrong on the drinking. And in a curious way, there was always hope that things would get better if the drinking stopped. Now the drinking has stopped, there’s little or no relationship, and now there’s no hope.
3. I don’t understand as much as I need to about co-dependency, but there’s no question that it’s real. Sometimes the non-drinking spouse in a twisted way needs the drinking spouse to keep hitting the bottle. There’s an emptiness that settles in when the drinking spouse stops, because the main role of the non-drinking spouse had been to manage his or her spouse’s drinking. Now what?
Does all this mean that if you’re an alcoholic or married to one that you should do nothing about it? Of course not. However, it may mean you address the problem with a little different perspective about what it might mean if you’re able to stop the drinking.
Your thoughts?
Cunning baffling disease
I will just say that it takes a HUGE amount of courage to leave a drinker – they
manipulate more than you realise (not sure about co-dependency, I was afraid of my
husband killing himself) – but once you’ve done it you wonder why you
couldn’t have done it a long time ago!
I’m glad you brought up these guesses. For me, they were questions I had about other people’s relationships. Now that I’m actually walking in the shoes of the “non-drinking spouse” shoes, I have my own answers, the bias attached involves that our family includes, boys (19,11, 9) and girls (16, 14).
Guess #1 – It’s not guilt. It’s the relief. We always had a joint account, once we get on our feet, is he going to understand why I want a separate account? After all, I’ve struggled with the money being “drunk away”, why can’t he understand it’s in the FAMILY’S best interest? With two accounts, if he relapses (what’s to say there won’t be?) at least one account (mine) will pay the bills, haircuts, clothes, school field trips, feminine hygiene products, year books, pictures and the list goes on. (And, that’s taking the 19 year old out of the equation.)
Guess #2 – Refer to #1. So many years are spent on your first guess; the recovering alcoholic is oblivious to the trials and tribulations of the previous years. Those for him are black out years, pretty much amnesia. I now ask myself, what would he do after sobriety? The years for him never existed (he doesn’t remember.) Does he think we just start at the point he does remember? What about the kids? How long we’ve prayed for HOPE? How long do we pray hope before we give up? We’ve heard the promises, the pleadings, the apologies…and we believed.
Guess #3 – It’s not that the spouse wants the recovering alcoholic to “hit the bottle”. He/She wasn’t managing the spouse’s drinking; he/she’s just trying to survive, with as little fallout as possible. Trust me, he/she is saying “what now” as well.
I haven’t left yet, but your guesses are answering my questions, I can’t win.
Everyone’s different, so let me start by saying that this is only my situation, and it may not apply to others. This is what I’ve learned about my situation.
First, Charlie is completely right. The alcoholic is a master manipulator, and you have to be incredibly strong and honest with yourself to deal with the lies, excuses, etc. The lack of trust, even if the alcoholic stops drinking, is HUGE.
Second, if you have kids, and the alcohol problem persists after a few months of trying, get the alcoholic removed legally from the house or leave with the kids. Do not walk… RUN. I tried for two years to get my spouse to stop, I did al-anon, the spouse did rehab, meds, outpatient, etc. I got a court order for temporary custody, believed the spouses lies about stopping and rehab and “recovery”, let the alcoholic back into the house, and watched my family crumble all over again. So what if you love them? Love has nothing to do with it. I had to choose between my immature alcoholic spouse that I loved for two decades, and my kids. It was a no brainer, I chose the kids. The damage that is done to them is IMMEASURABLE. So stop thinking about yourself and your marriage, stop being selfish, and start thinking of the responsibility you have to your children. During those two years of trying all I did was extend the hurt, fear, and damage to the kids. If I’d known I’d have done it sooner.
Third, my alcoholic soon-to-be ex tried to commit suicide after I removed them from our home for the second and last time, and filed for divorce. You’ll say I’m cold or angry, but that’s not it at all. I cried when I heard. But then I realized it was yet another manipulation. I have absolutely no guilt about it; it’s an immature, “I’ll show them” response, typical of alcoholics. I feel pity, compassion, sorrow, pain, yes. But the only guilt I feel is toward my kids for letting the alcoholic back into their lives. The alcoholic makes choices, and if you buy into their lies and excuses then you are enabling, and not living your own life anymore. If they want to jump off a bridge that’s their choice.
Fourth: removing the alcoholic from you and your family’s lives, i.e. leaving, separation or divorce, is not only best for your family, it’s best for the alcoholic. They need to have consequences to their actions and learn to take responsibility. If they prove they can change, then you can always get back together. Al-Anon helped me for a while, but when I heard stories of 20 year struggles and multiple separations I realized just how sick it is. Where I differ from Al-anon is that if you continue to try to “learn to live with it” you’re really just enabling and co-dependant. If you really want a healthy life then remove the unhealthy part of it. Life does go on, and believe me, it’s much better without an alcoholic.
Fifth: set your boundaries, even if they’re progressive, and stick with them. For me it was simple: leave, rehab, then if you’re really recovering we can talk about coming back. Then, more than 3 relapses in 60 days, and you leave. Then, one more drop, and you leave. Boundaries are more for your sanity and helping you to avoid denial than anything else. The boundaries aren’t really going to help the alcoholic much, and they’re not “control” (the common complaint of immature alcoholics). They’re YOUR boundaries for YOUR life.
Last, remember that only the alcoholic decides to drink, and only the alcoholic can decide to stop. You have ZERO control over them.
Sorry for the long post, guess I got on a rant. Again, this is only my story. I know there are alcoholics who are truly recovered, and I respect them immensely. I just hope this helps someone avoid the terrible pain and permanent damage that my kids and I have experienced.
TThank you thank you thank you for this article and these responses.
I am a 30 year old mother of three beautiful young children (2 daughters,7 and 3, and my baby boy 18months). I married my alcoholic partner because I fell for al-anon’s “support”. Now I want a divorce but I (have been) paralyzed by fear, really. (though taking baby steps and searching out strength.)
Before I say any more, I realize there may be some marriages that were built on solid ground and that may be capable of healing and ressurection, though I do have serious doubts because In my experience the whole relationship was flawed to begin with possibly just not meant to be. But put under pressure to preform it all just blew up and created a monumental mess.
maybe someone’s alcohol devistated marriage isn’t like that.
Some friends say to me: “but can you be a single mother of three, financially? Couldn’t you just live seperately? (we already own two houses). Go to Al-anon.” I have considered al-anon. I have been about to go. But something inside me always says I would just be digging myself deeper. I hear stories of these women in Al-anon who are “warriors” and all they have gone through. But it still smacks of martyrdom to me. I do not want to be a warrior or a martyr or go through any more. I see clearly my mistake. I got the reality. I want to hold on to it. It’s like I have been drowning and I finally got a lifesaver and I’m up for air and don’t even suggest that I should consider staying in the shark infested water a little longer and change my own behavior and time will tell, maybe things will get better. I cannot stand the “one day at a time” philosophy espoused by AA. My husband tells me he can ONLY take it “one day at a time”, but that is not good enough for me and my children when what we are looking at is an addicted abusive person who has no self control. Any person wo abuses their own body will abuse others, whether it is with physical force, violence, threats, harassment, relentless teasing, emotional manipulation, put downs, bullying, verbal assaults, sexual abuse, financial abuse, isolation, whatever. An alcoholic is abusive. no way around it.
And then when I go looking for support in divorcing an alcoholic who has abused me and manipulated me and controlled me until I felt I had totally faded away, most of what I find is Al-anon inspired encouragement to try these other alternatives and these suggestions that I need to change for him to “recover” and that divorce would be a last option. I thank god that I am not so far gone that I don’t see through this load of bull shit. I know that this situation has made me a bit mental. I know that I have to work on me and change me. But please, I am not buying it that I should for one more minute nurture the idea of trying to save my marriage. I have done “me work” in our marriage. I have refused to speak to, argue with, comfort, excuse, cover up for, rescue, etc. the alcoholic. I do not coddle him. I have left him with nothing to face but himself. He’s “quit” plenty times. Everytime he thinks I’ll be pleased and everything will be fine. I am happy for him, but I am left feeling sick because I feel like it’s just another form of manipulating me to stay in a relationship where I was forced into a parental role over my partner. No matter how recovered he may become, no matter how forgiving I am, I will not be able to see him as a worthy lover or husband (for me) again. It would be an insult to our dignity. No wonder our culture still has not found a real solution to Alcoholism.
When my husband hit one bottom (they can bounce) he tried AA and said he felt like those people were just creating an addiction to being alcoholics by focusing so much energy on it. I agree. I feel Alcoholics Anonymous and Al-Anon are causing an expansion of the problem. I know that is drastic to say, but I have to believe in Myself and in my True God. I believe AA and A-anon are misrepresenting god to push their propaganda. I don’t see any intention from AA to Take Care of this Problem For Good. For me God means Good. God call us to gently keep one another on the right path. God calls for discipline. Meaning developing good healthy habits for good, for eternal Life, right? That means living in the Light. Not staying in the Dark. Al Anon says don’t enable but then they caution against divorce. But without it I am like the rubber floor that the beer bottle is bouncing off of into my husband’s hand!
Divorce is the only way to deconstruct the devastation my family is in and to begin to rebuild a functional life for all us.
OK
Interesting article and comments.
I’m done is partially right, “one day at a time’ is BS, you can’t live like that. “You change in order to be able to live with an alcoholuc spouse” BS again, whatever the spouse does or doesn’t do has NO EFFECT on the alcoholic. Both AA an AL-Anon advocate ‘no responsibilty for the disease of alcoholism’ – Alcoholism is a choice, not a disease & everyone is responsible for their own actions.
I tried Al-anon last year; for 8 weeks; It helped a little to get some things off my chest but beyond that is about as much use as AA – not very much. In fact the lady who had suffered her abusive (in so many ways) husband for 25 years solely because she though she couldn’t live without him was deeply sad.
I love my wife truly madly deeply, always have, always will. I can no longer live with her. The constant noise of her screaming at the walls, smashing photos off the walls, breaking through locked doors to tell me to , “f*ck off *rsehole!”, harassing the dog, phone calls from kindly neighbours asking me to come pick my wife’s car from the ditch. We are just coming up for our fifth anniversary (nearly ten years together) and I’ve decide enough is enough.
I would like some pointers as to how to go about organizing a divorce with the minimum of fuss and expense, I think I can get her to sign a Marital Separation Agreement, but beyond that I’m stuck.
From one day to the next my wife will go from Alpha to Omega in terms of disposition and mental acuity. So maybe we have all the papers signed and filed one day, the next day she will more than likely be begging me stay, threatening suicide or telling me she’ll be dragging the divorce through through courts interminably.
Normally it would be the woman who is the dependent in a marriage. Somehow I’ve always been the dependent in this marriage. I have a job and my own things but she has always earned way more than me and been the primary signatory on things like the house and cars. Too be blunt, I don’t want to be left a pauper after the marriage.
So any advice on how I can acheive my goals; of getting out of my marriage as quickly and cleanly as possible with the minimum of fuss and a reasonable sum; would be welcome.
Our only dependent is the dog and we live in VA.
craigy,
I agree with you 100%: Alcoholism is a choice, not a disease. I have never understood how or why people put up with it for years, although in a strange way I respect them for it. I suppose if one has kids that is a different story than if one does not.
In any case, I don’t understand why you, as the person who has always made less money during the marriage, would be at all worried about what you would get. Unless the courts purposefully screw you over, it seems that the person making more money would be the person who could potentially lose out, right? If you walk away with whatever you had before the marriage, plus whatever you contributed to it, that would be a good deal, would it not? Just something to think about.
My advice would be (and I am not a lawyer), talk to a few attorneys and get their view on the matter. Get a few opinions. You should be able to get a free 30 to 60 minute consultation from each one. Your employer, church, or other organization to which you belong may have a referral program, so look into that, too. You may be able to get a longer free consultation, reduced rates, etc. Try to pursue a dissolution if you can. Regardless of what your wife may threaten, if you can get her to agree to sign a fair separation agreement while she is sober, you will be much closer to obtaining a trouble-free dissolution than you will ever be otherwise. The key point is to have your attorney include language in the agreement to the effect that it becomes a binding document not only for the dissolution you will pursue but also in any subsequent divorce action. This way, if she shows up at the dissolution hearing and refuses to follow through, you still have that agreement which the court should uphold in the divorce proceeding. Although it varies by state, typically you have 1 year from the date of the separation agreement before it is automatically nullified; so if the dissolution gets fouled up just be sure that it is converted to a divorce immediately.
Just my two cents…
I married my husband at 23 knowing full well he had a drinking problem! I thought I could change him – never happend. Had my children who are now 20 & 15. We lived with him and his drinking habits, lies, remorse, promises…..etc!! I didn’t have a full time job until 2003 so from 1986 – 2003 I put up with it all till I could no more. I found myself a job in sales whch started give me confidence as other respected me I realised I by myself that I could leave and have a normal life. In 2006 I filed for Divorce – he must have got huge fright cause he went to Al-non and changed 180deg! Everybody could see the change within days….so I didn’t go through with the divorce. For just on a year now, we have had a better life, still had problems but they were small compared to what we were used to. But today….he drank again….disappointment & hurt, tears again all came back and he thinks that he’s done nothing wrong. I am so angry he told me he had been still drinking through the past year and doesn’t think there is anything wrong with it. Neither do I for normal people but for an alcoholic its disaster it can only lead back to where we’ve come from. Which is what has happened, I will not wait around to find out what happens next – No, I am going through with it this time. SA
we keep saying we’re done we’rer not putting up any longer, but how many of us just put it off one more day hoping thing will change for good and feeling absolutely elated when we get a not drunk night or weekend or jut a great family moment, forgetting or convincing ourselves its not a cycle that it’ not going to haen all over again ? They make us the ones who are sick.
My wife of three years is addicted to wine and spending and lying about both. She hides several wine bottles around the house and “visits” them often during the evening, so that by bed time she’s smashed, at least several nights out of any week. Eary I was convinced she appeared drunk and asked her “hony, have you been dringing?” She always denies it. She says “I just took a couple of benadryl for my alergies; they always make me a little groggy.” Well, groggy is not exactly how I’d describe it. She can’t focus. (She looks “through” me, know what I mean?) Her speech is slurred. She sways. And she gets loud and belligerent. Often the next morning she is late for school or claims “my 10 o’clock class isn’t meeting today”. No mention of it the day before.
She knows I know about the hidden bottles; she insists she’s not drunk “I wish I didn’t have to hide them. I ought to be able to take a drink like anyone else.” In fact, there’s not a thing to prevent her doing just that. But she insists on lying to me about having been drinking; and she couldn’t do that if she were clearly going back and forth with a full glass of wine.
She lost her job a few years back; then got another; and quit it to go to college full time; then her mom got cancer and died pretty quickly, and my wife dropped some of her classes and didn’t finish her program. Now she’s begun a different program. I’m concerned about her being able to complete it (a Masters of Teaching), or get and hold a teaching job. I’m concerned about her ability to rear her (8 yo) daughter. I’m very concerned about our being able to stay together over the coming months and years with her continual lying and sneaking around. (By the way, when she’s drinking she also spends huge amounts of money! I took away her credit cards; but the company sent her another — I hadn’t actually canceled it with them — and she spent $5,000 in two months!) Her room (we non longer share a room) is unspeakably cluttered — you can’t even walk traverse it! Piles of dirty laundry and wrapping paper, and shoes, and books, and other stuff knee deep. I know that living like that makes her feel awful! (Me too!) But it’s clear that she can’t do anything about it. (Her girl’s room is exactly like it! Neither picks up after herself, nor ever returns any item, once used, to its original place. It’s a life completely out of control in every way!)
Outside the home, most people think she’s just wonderful: charming, intelligent, and fun.
She is not a falling down drunk; and she is almost never drunk in public. She is usually a good student, until she stops attending class altogether and never tells me about it.
I can’t just stand around and wait for her to hit rock bottom! But I’m unable to influence her behavior in any way. I hate to leave her. She has no job. She hasn’t finished her schooling. She has no prospects. She has that wonderful little girl (who has lived as my step daughter for nearly four years now!). I just hate to think of her struggling on her own. Does that make me an enabler?
I am reading this while considering my situation. I have been married to an alcoholic wife for 35 years, and she is the only woman I have ever loved. I believe she was probably an acoholic when I married her and she may have had the problem from teenage years onwards. She is an intelligent woman, with an IQ at the very top end, but a complete lack of any desire to be active in the society of people in general. She now has no friends, and will not make friends or go to any kind of club, society or meeting. She is anti-religious so that’s not an option. She will not support any activity of mine, either, so if I go out, it’s on my own – goes for invitations to parties, barbeques, whatever. She used to be willing to go to major awards, conventions, seminars etc and do the dinner and dance stuff but now refuses to do that, making me someone who appears not to have an ‘other half’ in any context, and to be making apologies. She has not been present when I’ve given talks, performed in concerts, presented or received industry awards – whatever. We are no longer in touch with our grandkids (10 and 11) because she alienated their mother, and she in turn will never visit her own mother. We have a vast house which is beyond my ability to clean or maintain, and she won’t consider moving because she wants to keep all the thousands of things she has acquired over the years. 2,500 Beanie Babies in one room – 35 years of dresses, shoes – many thousands of books. We have so many animals that we can barely move from the house for a day, yet the only time she is happy is when we are travelling – on holiday, abroad – and this is also the only time she is (relatively) sober. The garden is full of chickens, the house is full of cats. We run a business, but all the hard work and essential tasks – processing payments, packing up and posting items, entering data – are ones which she says she finds so depressing she won’t help. All the interesting tasks like design, writing, interviewing, she can not be trusted to do because the results are awful and she won’t listen to any advice, training or criticism – or RTFM. We now have no staff, and no real business, because over the years when my wife was ‘working’ (some of it real and geniune work, much not) she created an atmosphere which drove them away. She has, always, greatly resented my talking to anyone instead of to her – or failing to address all conversation jointly to a third party and her. This has extended to the telephone, which I was unable to use normally when we working in an office together, because of her visible displeasure at any lively or friendly conversation. Makes selling difficult!
My dilemma is this – I still love the woman, though I do not actually want to express that physically every night like clockwork, which has become a recent development and is beginning to act like aversion therapy. I don’t care in the slightest about money as my own tastes are simple and my hobbies or interests tend to generate rather than eat up money. Our kids are fully adult and independent, and both warn me that I am destined to end up not enjoying a relaxing retirement in ten years’ time, but being a personal carer for an anti-social, alcoholic, vain, lazy and irresponsible woman. They also warn me of the danger of remaining with her and risking the possibility that I might be injured, become disabled or become infirm myself and find her as my ‘carer’. Both son and daughter are privately worried that who their mother is may one day land them with a domestic or financial burden. Our son suggested today (to me) that our daughter may put off ever having a family because of the danger of an apparently doting and affectionate grandmother who couldn’t be trusted to look after a baby for an hour.
Yet, if I part company with my wife, what on earth is to become of her? She is 56, unemployable. She has a three university degrees and double the usual number of High School qualifications; she has a driving licence but has not driven for ten years. Like many alcoholics she believes she is a great listener and/or counsellor and has all the time in the world for anyone suffering a similar condition. I believe there’s some substance in this, and if she could overcome the medical condition which means one shot of strong drink is too much, she might find something to do. She has, over the years, been extremely unfaithful (impossible to trust, especially if drink is available); she has attempted suicide at least three times, the last time being saved only by the presence of mind of our 13-year-old son, as he was then. We separated and went through divorce proceedings 20 years ago, with her spending some time in a mental ward, but I eventually decided it was our environment and lifestyle which caused the problem and we cancelled the divorce. We moved 200 miles and started over. Ten years later she hit a serious drinking patch again and had psychiatry and counselling. This year, she started getting seriously drunk again, at first lying, then forced to admit it, but finally being almost defiant – sort of ‘I want to be so I can be’.
In the end, the only thing which keeps her from drinking is my constant attendance; if I am sitting beside her, with her 24/7, accompanying her on everything, not working, not going out on business or for any other reason – she’s OK. But if I am out of sight in another room – like now writing this – I run the risk she’ll raid whatever spirits we have. Why do we have spirits at all? Because she can controlled using a rigid schedule – one glass of wine with dinner, no further alcohol under exactly 11pm at night, and then two cans of beer, and a shot of something stronger before going to bed. No smoking at any time except after 11pm. This, along with a ritual of exact times and procedures for eating, feeding animals, watching TV and having a bath (etc) also determines my life the moment we step across the threshold. Travel is a great relief for me, because this almost monastic routine of hours is disrupted, but the point about travel is that we are together 24/7 and this is what she seems to need.
I’m not sure if I deserve this sentence for life. I’ve got another twenty years where I can expect to be pretty fit and active. I can not afford to do what she wants, which is to abandon my work and my business for good (it is not saleable, it is personally-based), sell up and go and live on a Caribbean island thousands of miles from anyone we know, all my friends, and our family. Nor do I believe this would work; one year in the sun, and she’d be bored again, and she’d find the fairly religious, socially old-fashioned structure no better than at home in Europe.
But, if I say enough’s enough, I would be sentencing her to life in a different way. I do not know if I can do that.
David.
It’s been nine years since you wrote the above post. I can identify with so much of what you wrote. Tell ya what..,life is short and it surely is not a dress rehearsal. I’ll dump my alcoholic husband of 25 years if you will dump your alcoholic wife. What the hell–email me if you want to enjoy a few years of your life unfettered.
First of all I would like to clear this up. Alcoholism is a disease not a choice. According to the cdc website
“Alcoholism or alcohol dependence is a diagnosable disease characterized by several factors including a strong craving for alcohol, continued use despite harm or personal injury, the inability to limit drinking, physical illness when drinking stops, and the need to increase the amount drunk in order to feel the effects ”
Im a recovering alcoholic. I attend aa meetings and i find them very helpful, but you cant just attend the meetings and recover, you have to follow the steps with open honesty. Ive seen alot of people go to the meeting just to get their spouse to shut up. Some of them actually stay sober because they hear very similar stories to their own. They then may decide they are powerless over alcohol. Others that come in for this reason will not take it seriously and still drink. Ive known people that tell their spouse that they are going to a meeting and went to a bar instead.
It is an addiction and when you stop feeding your body alcohol you feel terrible and the only way to stop that feeling is to drink alcohol. That is why alot of people relapse very early into their recovery. The withdrawl will go away in time but most alcoholics want things done right now.
What baffles me is the anount of stories I hear and read about when the drinking spouse finally gets sober the non drinking spouse leaves. This has also happened to me. Im now sober, attending AA meeting regularly, working through my steps every day and attending church regularly. My life has changed. I still take it one day at a time. When an alcoholic says to themselves im never going to drink again that is very overwhelming. That in itself can cause one to drink . Thats why I will do whatever it takes not to drink TODAY.
Anyway, after getting sober Ive been alot more involved in the family life. Im interested in the financial area, more active with my son, do the chores on my own. I even feel so much better than I ever imagined I would feel. My wife apparently didnt like this new me. She always said she hated me when I drank and always wanted me to stop. I tried several times on my own but was never serious. Finally I read an article about AA and decided to go to a meeting, these people told my life story, and they were now sober. I wanted what they had and I now have it! My wife apprently didnt like it though. Ive been so much more involved and shes always been in charge of everything. Now Im not scared to say things because of guilt that I drank the previous night. I dont leave issues unresolved, if there is an argument I believe we need to resolve it or at least talk about it in a civil manner. when I was drinking I would agree to anything she said just because either i wanted her to shut up or felt guilty. Now I actually value her opinion and was hoping she would value mine. That hasnt happend and so she has left and taken my son with her. Hopefully one day we can reconcile but if not I will still be sober because I did this for myself not her.
Ive thought about this alot and the best comparison I can come up with is when you have a couple married for 50 years. The husband worked his time to retire and the wife stayed home. Now that the husband is home all of the time they find out that they really dont get along very well and split.
I HAVE JUST HAD ANOTHER ARGUEMENT WITH MY HUSBAND…SAME STORY AS LAST WEEK AND LAST MONTH AND LAST YEAR. I ONCE AGAIN ASKED HIM TO “CURB” HIS DRINKING…HE GOT ANGRY AND SAID THAT WASNT THE PROBLEM, I AM. HE WAS SOUR, MEAN, AND DEGRADING. HE LECTURED ME FOR OVER AN HOUR ABOUT HOW HARD HIS LIFE IS AND HOW STRESSED HE IS…I THINK I WILL LEAVE. PARTS OF ME RATIONALIZE HIS BEHAVIOUR, COMPARING HIM TO OTHERS I KNOW. I SAY “WELL THIS PERSON DRINKS AND THEY ARE HAPPILY MARRIED.” BUT DEEP WITHIN, I KNOW THIS PATH OF LIVING WITH HIM IS NOT RIGHT. I HAVE TWO CHILDREN, 2 & 4. I AM SCARED. I AM 37 AND HAVE HELPED HIM BUILD A VERY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS THAT I AM PROUD OF. WHAT SHOULD I DO? I AM SO EXHAUSTED FROM WORRY AND MAKING DECISIONS AND FEAR THAT I JUST WANT SOMEONE TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO. I AM LIVING WITH VERY LITTLE SOUL. I ASK EVERYDAY WHAT IS THE POINT. CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT THE POINT IS??? HE TELLS ME I AM WRONG ALL THE TIME…THAT WHY ISNT HE ALLOWED TO EXPRESS HIMSELF…I THINK HE HAS IT GOOD…HE DRINKS…PASSES OUT…I STAY AWAY, ALERT AND OPEN FOR MY KIDS…I REALLY ALREADY AM SINGLE RAISING MY CHILDREN WITH THE ADDED STRESS OF HIS ALCOHOLIC ASS…ANYWAY…I AM READY TO LEAVE…GOODBYE
have you been to any al anon meetings? Look at this website. http://www.al-anon.org/english.html. You cant make him admit hes an alcoholic, he has to do that on his own but alanon is a support group for family members of alcoholics. I did the same thing as your husband, if he is an alcoholic he cant curb his drinking he has to stop. You cant make him stop either, threats to leave probably wont make him stop because he will then probably stop for a short period but resent you the entire time he is sober. Resentment is an alcoholics worst enemy, eventually it will build up so much and he will start drinking again. Id check out the website and attend a meeting in your area. These people have all been through what you are going through.
I am 30 years old and have an alcoholic husband, i have been married to him for 8 years. I am just now getting up the courage to leave. My husband is a good person when he is sober, now that is only about 7 hours of the day, by 4 he has his first drink and by 8 he is fall down drunk. he is not always mean, sometimes critical, sometimes nice, sometimes beligerant. All depends. I have 2 little kids 2 and 4 and i finally got the courage to tell him i was leaving. I tried al-anon but the think about that is i have kids, there is no way to teach a 5 year old how to detach from her father with love. He never spends time with them, he never comes with us to any outings and he is incoherent by 10 at night. This is no way to live. Al-anon seems to not like the word “divorce” not really sure why. I want a real life, i know this will be devestating to my kids however in the long run, i know i am at least giving them a shot at a real life. Not a life of care-taking, criticism and verbal abuse. Al-anon has helped me get enough strength to leave, however they don’t reccomend it. I will never be happy while still living with him and what has kept me from leaving has been my guilt that he will crumble without me. As i know he will and maybe someday he will hit rock bottom and quit, i can no longer have that guilt on my shoulders. I am doing this for my kids and someday they will understand. The longer i stay here the more i fear i will change my mind as he gets on his knees and cries and tells me he will change. I can no longer believe him or feel bad for him, i have to do what is best for the kids. I feel terrible ripping our family apart like this because i still love the “sober” him. But the less of that person i see the more unhappy i become. Anyway, i am done. My kids and I deserve better, we deserve normal and i am determined to give that to them.
My alcoholic spouse of 23 years just left me. He stopped drinking but the residual mess he was underneath couldn’t take the lack of alcohol. He turned into a person I didn’t even know anymore. He has cut himself off from his kids and is spending money like water. Al-Anon helped me with the mess he left behind. Take what you want and leave the rest is part of Alanon. Some women don’t want to leave their partners, they aren’t judged. Others leave and want to find some answers, which may or may not be there. All I know is that they are always welcoming. It is free, the people understand and it helps. There is no magic bullet for alcoholism nor for the enabling behavior it generates. As the alcoholic gets older, it gets worse by the way. I have to watch my spouse repeat himself and go through other physical changes that he can’t assess himself from the drinking. It is really awful. You do deserve better, we all do. And you can’t change the behavior, trust me!
I left my alcoholic husband of 8 years, and have to agree with what most of you say! the guilt i felt was awful.
He has threatened to commit suicide, ive had endless abusive phone calls and text messages. At times i thought i
would never feel better. He is now getting help again!!! and i wish him all the best with that but now realise that no its not all my fault i didnt make him want to drink and i do deserve better than that.
Do i still love him? yes the sober bit which i saw for the first time a few months back for a whole 7 weeks and it was bliss but the alcoholic moved back in even worse than before.
I havent cried in a week a huge plus i was doing it every day before. he thinks he is the only one hurting and im having the time of my life.
my daughter and i are going on holiday soon and it will be good to relax and not have to worry about my husband messing it all up by sneaking away and getting drunk
Hi there – I am in a weird place – my boyfriend went into rehab 3 days ago for a 6-week program and while anyone would think I’d be over the moon about this I find I am dealing with some many mixed emotions I don’t know whcih way to turn. I guess after all the emotional drama of living with an alcoholic, now that’s he’s not around I just feel so at a loss. I thought I’d be revelling in my new-found freedom but find instead that I am often close to tears, not able to enjoy my quiet peaceful house, fully relax into this new way of being – no stress, anxiety or tension. I have started going to Al-Anon and found so much help there but wish there was a “support group” for people with loved ones in rehab. We are hurting too and also need some help, comfort and care.
Any comments from anyone in a similar situation?
I thank all of you for writing your comments. They have helped me get through this rough period in my life. It’s a good feeling to know I am not alone, and at fault.
My husband left a year and a half ago, after 14 years of marriage. He was my soul-mate, and an alcoholic. I loved him through the good times, and the very bad times.
He left after going through rehab, and left my children and I like garbage, after treating himself. He has now been sober for a year, and living with a girlfriend and 4 year old child. I’m hurt, sad, and angry that he never gave our family a chance, after rehab. He was a monster when he drank, so I don’t miss the bad times. I was the biggest enabler there was. and at the same time, I feel cheated, in more ways than one. Do the feelings ever go away? I’m proud that I am taking excellent care of my children and myself, financially and emotionally. But, there are days, emotionally where I still hurt.Do the feelings ever go away?
Claudia, I haven’t been in a similar situation, but because I deal with so many substance abusers in divorce, I’ve learned something about the place where you find yourself. You may be in a classic co-dependency mode, where you have become accustomed to protecting your boyfriend and bailing out from the messes he makes, and if he dries out you will miss that caring role. Al-Anon may be a good learning experience for you, because you will find there a room full of co-dependents and former co-dependents. Ask your friends at Al-Anon about co-dependency; they’ll probably give you an earfull.
Also, check out books on co-dependency at your local library; there are scads of them.
Thanks Lee. I have been working on my co-dependency issues – just wasn’t prepared for the emotional feelings that came after he went into rehab. Realised this morning that after living under huge strain for the past few months I should allow myself some “down” time – time to grieve, feel angry, feel lost, – feel all the things I wasn’t allowing myself to feel before. Guess the real challenge is learning to live my own life – to really learn to detach, let go and take responsibility for only me. Just didn;t realise how much of my time and energy had been given to him – now I have it all back for me! I have to learn how to spend it on making MY life work – dealing with my issues, feeling my emotions, making decisions that work for me. In essence using all that valuable enabling experience i have built up over the years to enable ME! So, one day at a time, I am learning to take as good care of me as I did of my alcoholic boyfriend!
I think I am ready to have my husband removed from our home. His drinking has slowly escalated, and 2 years ago he was in the hospital for 5 months with pancreatitis, he almost died— after he got out he was sober for a year. Then he started again. He stops for a few days, and everything is fine, then he starts up again. He quit antabuse, didn’t stick with AA, won’t stick with rehab. We have three kids who love him, but seem disgusted with him—all they see is him passed out, or ranting and raving about nonsense, slamming doors and throwing food at the walls. He wasn’t like this when we got married, slowly he seemed to drink more and more, then started hiding it. I had no previous experience with this, but now I realize that he doesn’t want to stop and he has to leave. He won’t on his own accord, so I guess i have to have him legally removed–I can’t lose my house, and i don’t want to take my kids away from their schools and home. Thanks for letting me vent, I am too embarassed to tell my friends anything.
So glad I found this website. I’m married 35 years, 2 grown sons on their own with their own families. We are very close. My husband is an alchoholic – although he is in denial. I left him 27 years ago, got close to a divorce, but just couldn’t do it because of the boys. He started drinking more and more over the years. He never is physically abusive but is very critical of me. I believe the beer has gone to his brain cells because he can’t think as good as he used to (he is a professional) and I work in his office.
I decided over this weekend to go for legal advice. I don’t necessarily want a divorce, but I need to be separated for my own peace of mind. I ready to make the big move and appreciate reading your stories. I wish us all emotional peace. Comments, please. Thanks, Colleen
My husband choose to let alcohol be more important than his family, job, and home. I have to share with you that are struggling with the decision to leave or not, I felt such relief when I walked out of the attorneys office after filing for divorce. I married my high school sweetheart had a wonderful life for 16 years, and then he started drinking. After three years of living in this turmoil, three rehabs, and counseling sessions once or twice a week, and endless AA meetings and 3 sponsors, I did not allow him to come home, and put a restraining order on him. Yes, things will be hard but I promise you, It is not as hard as living with a alcoholic. I would much rather be working 50 hours a week, having peaceful evenings with my two children, and knowing that I will not allow him to be around my children any longer. Alcoholics are the master manipulators, I can’t tell you how many times he has threatened suicide, that’s one of their favorites. Finally the last time he threatened I said, I don’t want you to do that, I don’t think you should do that, but if that is what you want, there is no one that can stop you, it’s your choice. He was furious and hung up on me. That was several threats ago. It drives them crazy when you stop letting them get to you. If you have no reaction, they no longer can manipulate you. It has been over 5 weeks since I last talked to him and I am so happy that I have chosen to no longer let alcohol control my life. There is a wonderful web site http://www.empoweredrecovery.com if you are ready to take that step of getting the alcoholic out of your life, this website will give you wonderful support. Peace will come, don’t be afraid to take your life back. Wishing happiness, Leah
I left my alcoholic husband (AH) five months ago (4/07). Although getting my life on track has been difficult due to moving so much in the military environment for the past 22 years, it si worth every bit of the peace I’m now experiencing for the first time in over 10 years. Not having grown up with any alcoholism in my family, I was completely clueless about it when my AH went from occassional binge-drinking into abuse then dependency starting around our 7th year of marriage. Not understanding this shift in our marriage, as I attributed it to the military [AH used this very well to mask the alcoholism] and slowly adopted the behaviors of a denial-enabling-codependent. My AH had learned to function very well in the military, but not as a father or husband at home, whereby, I had taken on ALL the household/family duties and worked full-time as well by trying to constantly keep order out of all disorder. The emotional and physical toll alcohol was taking on my AH was destroying me as well, so much so I wanted to literally park my car in the garage and let the engine run!
My neighbor literally saved my life! Thankfully, she had seen all the signs in our marriage that took place in her own home by growing up with an alcoholic father. She told me to look up “codependency” and all I can say is the LIGHTS CAME ON…that’s what I had become! To say alcoholism is an insidious, cunning and baffling disease is an understatement–its cruel and unusual punishment for those who unwittingly become involved with them and end up as their victims and objects to blame, criticize and demean because they’re so miserable about themselves by allowing their ‘mistress’ to come in and slowly take them over!
It was over the past year and a half when my AH’s long-term drinking was causing him to loose all sense of boundaries, not only at home by catching him and my 15 year old drinking together, but with his exec. assistant and his military job too! I could no longer keep it all together, the exhaustion was just too much and I HAD TO GET OUT or I was either going to DIE or go INSANE from it! I offered to stay only if he would seek medical treatment and actively work on full recovery, but he refused, so I left him for good.
From hereon out my AH is going to have to suffer the full consequences of his drinking all on his own as I refuse to remain in denial about it. Hopefully he will hit his ‘rock bottom’ now that I’m no longer enabling and covering for it, at least before his mistress finds another victim to drag into the insane web of his alcoholic addiction.
Knowledge is power! Anyone thinking about entering or remaining in this type of relationship should fully equip themselves with every bit of information via books, websites, forums [soberrecover.com], al-anon, therapy, etc. to determine whether its something you truly want to commit or invest in, because the side-affects and havoc the disease of alcoholism causes will destroy you and everyone who comes in contact with it, if not properly arrested and treated.
There is a lot of suffering going on due to choices.Alcohol etc.
My alcoholic and “Bipolar” wife has made AA her family and is divorcing me.
We did an intervention a year and half ago, 1 week to dry out and 28 days. She had a relapse after 5 months and took off for the Farm house at her home town where are oldest of 4 sons was finishing his senior year of high school and her parents set her up with utilities at the old house.
She spent 1week there 1week upstairs in our home here for 1 and half years.
(From what I can tell sober but not communicating well always at a AA meeting canoe trip etc.
I do not want a divorce so she filed to get me out and to quit interfering with her and the kids that I am primary caretaker for?
Most guys leave and they just ignore the safety factor and lack of security for their kids.
They really do need both parents involved working together if possible.
My faith is challenged by this whole other world outside of our Neighborhood.
While I believe that Alcoholism becomes a disease bad choices come before in some cases.
The signs were there,just have to look for them.
At this point I have to look at the situation as as illness that I didn’t cause and can’t cure her. Standard AA stuff. But what it really comes down to is we are all have some part that is enabling,manipulative,selfish etc. (Needy) I don’t like the rejection.
But,keep in mind we can read 100 books and they all tell us why someone else are the way they are. Again stick to Our choices as what we are responsible for.
AA and Alanon Opinion only— Any organisation is only as good as its members.
However; not all meetings will meet the needs of all members.(Some are worse than bars)
If I go to an investment club or pta I dont know if they are out robbing homes on weekends or working volunteers at hospitals. (????)
My concern is it can become an addiction or cult like in that there cannot be any criticism because It works. You have to be and addict to attend.
Treat it like you would any other meeting within a marriage and it all becomes suspect.
Nothing is that perfect in reality… did anyone say to you that beware it is a Meet Mkt.
Sober is a start but do we need to throw our families out in the process.
If He or She causes you to drink get rid of them.(sarcasm)
My last thought is Our children need healthy communicating parents to help them to deal with life so they can be healthy secures adults. WE need to block out the trash until they can meet life with the right perspective.
Pray Pray Pray… The money runs out,spouse,job etc. Put your faith in truth.
I read with interest the comments and stories above. It is obvious that the majority of stories refer to Male alcoholics and the options for the woman victim. I do have to agree with the comments about AA and Al-Anon where , in a nutshell we the victims have to change our ways to accommodate their addiction and behavior. Sorry I don’t see it this way nor can I accept it. My story is that my wife of 26years is the alcoholic. An mentioned above in other stories, I and my 2 teenage daughters constantly have to put up with her drunken violent behavior. We are tired of telling lies to protect her to family and friends and repairing damage she has caused because she cant get her own way. We have tried many things to rid her of this addiction ( not disease ) including refusing to buy her cigarettes if she continues to drink but to no avail as she gets violent and abusive if she cant get them. She wanders off at anytime in the afternoon not returning until the early hours of the morning, sometimes next day. She has limited finances, she does not work but wants to ( nobody is going to employ an alco )so relies on her meager government payment of a few dollars a month to purchase the cheapest Plonk she can get. Like others she denies drinking whilst slurring her speech and not able to stand straight until I pull out the empty bottles hidden throughout the home to which she answers, ” they were from ages ago”. She has injured herself accidentally a number of times from her drunken state and broken 3 windows thus far in her rages. She has been arrested 4 times to date but no charges have been laid although we have tried.In reality she has a heat of gold and will do anything for anyone when she is sober but come around 10.00 am its pour the booze down the throat and continue till bed time. There are many more events which would take me a year to write but I imagine you get the idea. Now the dilemma, As a husband and no doubt many more out there we have a internal nature that keeps telling us that we are here to protect and love our spouse and children, to protect our home and family from threat and to care for our family when in need. Well how far are we expected to go ??
I will not deny that I love her, always have and I guess always will but can not go on in this relationship. I am seriously considering divorce but that creates another problem. We own our home, My two daughters and I live in this home We refuse to lose our home, where we live, where we grew up, where our family was created, by a divorce and having to sell. It is not us that have this alcoholic problem, why should we have to start again we are settled here, everything we have is paid for.
We are always looking for new solutions to this problem however no one seems to care. It is of my opinion that should I the male cause these problems I would be whisked away by police very quickly without hesitation. However because it is a female alcoholic she is so weak and vulnerable that she cant be left on her own. We have tried AA they don’t want to know , She has a police record, they don’t want to know, she has a record with the child protection agency, they don’t want to know. She has been assessed by “psychiatrists after a drinking session and attempted suicide, but they think she is fine. WHY, because she is female ??? She is currently on a good behavior bond and is warned by us and the authorities that if she shows anymore signs of violence she will be arrested yet again and may spend time inside. She does not believe this. How can a loving husband call the authorities and have her locked up ?
So where do we go from here? I am not a violent person. I have never and believe will never apply violence or aggression on her. We have asked her to leave but she refuses, Offered so much help and support, she refuses. It is now beyond the straw that broke the camels back and feel that I may Snap and do something I will regret later.
Surely there is someone out there who knows how to handle this. There must be some legal system whereby we the victims are looked after. Surely if a divorce took place, she would have to suffer all of the loss. The loss of her home and shared possessions.
Please somebody help us
I’m so glad I found this thread. It’s been very interesting to read everybody’s comments. But as I read through them all, I couldn’t find a situation similar to mine. I doubt, however, that my situation is unique.
I’ve been married for 12 years now. We have two young children. Since the day I met my husband, until I got sober 15 months ago, we drank and smoked pot. While in college together, we partied a lot. The pot smoking tapered off for both of us before we decided to have children. My second child was a surprise and we decided that I would stay at home to raise our two kids, the first one having special needs. Soon after our second was born, I became very resentful and angry at “the hand I was dealt” and starting drinking. It escalated over a period of six years, not a long time by comparison to many others.
My husband never once said anything about my drinking. I kept a lot of it hidden. Finally, when the blackouts starting coming more frequently and I was so depressed I was suicidal, I’d decided I was done–no DWI, no violence, no drinking on the job when I returned to work. I’d just decided I was tired of waiting for my life to get better, all the while drinking myself to death.
When I went to my first AA meeting and told my husband, he was very suprised. Said he didn’t realize I’d had a problem. He was shocked by my announcement that I wanted to go to an outpatient treatment program. I did 90 meetings in 90 days, so even though I was sober, I was still “gone” from my family. During “family night” while in treatment, he wouldn’t participate, and announced that he refused to air our dirty laundry in front of strangers (strangers to him, not me); what we needed was marriage counseling. See, things were rocky in our marriage–I’d been very irresponsible with our finances, and he harbored a lot of anger and resentment towards me. He told me he thought my “declaration” of being alcoholic was just one more excuse for why I couldn’t or wouldn’t change. I was angry, too. In the beginning, I’d felt he wasn’t accepting my new way of life, that I had to leave my sobriety at the door.
We went to a marriage counselor for six months. We talked about family of origin things, about the hardware we came with into the marriage, and that was helpful. But when it came to sharing how he felt…about anything…he came up empty. I learned from that experience how sealed tight he is. While I may believe he has garbage from his past he’s yet to deal with and that that’s why he can’t identify what he feels, I know, through my own recovery process, that he has to want to change. I’ve asked him to go see a therapist on his own. I’ve asked him to try Alanon. He firmly has refused either option. I can ask, but I can’t make him change if he’s unwilling or simply not ready. I can only change myself. We stopped couples therapy, and I continue to see her individually to this day, twice/week. It has been one of the most positive changes in my life.
All during this time, he has refused to acknowledge the changes taking place around him. As I get stronger, I am not willing to always be the “bad guy” or the “screw up”. Roles are beginning to change, further putting stress on our marriage. I am an active participant in my children’s education, my son’s health. I’ve even started managing our finances, all the while continuing to work on my recovery. He wants me to switch back to the person I was ten years ago (he admits this); but refuses to look at his part. While I didn’t ask to be an alcoholic, I believe this is a family disease. Like the old addage goes, “we’re only as sick as our secrets.”
And now to address the topic of divorce…
I’ve decided I want out. That’s all I’ve done. I’ve not told him. I’ve not hired a lawyer. But I made a decision. It came to me with a tremendous sense of clarity. This has to be a slow process, something I can not knee jerk react to. I’m not angry, I’ve let go of resentments. I love this man, he is a good man, he is a great father to my children. But I realized I will not live my life with someone who refuses to roll with the punches that life presents to us. He actually described it very clearly, months ago, during a counseling session. He said, “I have to decide if I want to get in the car with you.” Make no mistake about it–I am not in the driver’s seat. I don’t consider myself to be a “selfish alcoholic” in a “selfish program”. I am making choices for myself, for the better. To return to the selfish, self-seeking person I was when I was drinking and feeling sorry for myself, would mean to start drinking again. I don’t ever want to go back to that place again. But with these choices I make, as with any choices anyone makes, there come the consequences. Don’t think I haven’t thought about my choice to leave is something that won’t come with out pain and grief from our children. I will have to be ready to be there and to help them get through what will be the first major life transition of their young lives that they never asked to have to face. But, while some of you here may disagree, I do not believe in “staying together for the sake of the children”. I will not rolemodel this marriage to my children, lest they be destined to repeat it themselves.
You know, this may sound cheezy, and I know I used to roll my eyes whenever I heard someone in an AA meeting say it–but I am so grateful to be an alcoholic–heartache, tough times, changes. I’ll take all of the hard stuff that comes along with my life. It would still be there if I drank, but now I have the tools to deal with life on life’s terms, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Peace.
I am happy to see this thread and know I am not alone. I did divorce my alcoholic spouse 2.5 months ago. We were married for 10 years and have two small children. I moved out of state. He is medically diagnosed alcohol abusive and most likely dependent by an addiction expert at a major hospital. Although he attempted several times to stop drinking during the marriage and once proclaimed his addiction and was sober for about 1 month. He is back to fully drinking and full denial.
The day the kids and I moved out of state, he passed out drunk by a pool instead of saying goodbye to them. I know he loves them but you guys know they are self-absorbed. He does fly to visit them every 3 weeks or so. But as soon as we seperated for the last time he found a girlfriend. He lives with her. It’s so painful to know. He does proclaims when I see him his life is miserable, but he also wants me to give him money- so who knows- more manipulation I guess. I constantly pray for that bottom to come soon so he’ll get help, before he looses anymore. But I can say this to those of you out there that live the life I did. It’s hard to leave, but my kids are happier now than ever. The tension and fear that you carry everytime he came home they felt and now they don’t feel it.
Legally I recommend for those divorcing an alcholic – make certain the spouse is legally barred from consuming alcohol around the children, 12 hours prior and must report any prescription medications on a weekly basis or prior to visitation to you. I would also recommend if you can- push for alcoholic testing prior to visitation if you can. Try if you can to get a professional addiction assessment and go for monitored or supervised visitations. I wish I did at the time and now it’s hard to go back.
I will also say this, although you get them out of your immediate life, the papers don’t detach the love you have for that person underneath all the mess, if you have children with them, they will always be apart of your life if they choose to be apart of the children’s. They will still drive you crazy with never letting you know if they intend to take visitation, leave visitations early, and the worry about their safety, but life is better without them.
It’s just the healing and getting over the damage they have done to us and will continue to do to us b/c we will always care for them.
To Paul-
I recommend that you contact an attorney one that specializes or has experience in addiction- check out martindale hubbel online and look for an A rated lawyer then call and get a consultation. She is already suffering b/c an alcoholic hates themselves that’s why they drink. I let go of the home and possession and the courts took great care of me and I am fine. I did downsize when I moved and it is a great blessing. That home is filled with bad memories- start new, it’s not as hard as you think. She is punishing herself every time she drinks.
M
I too am so glad I found this blog. It almost feels like a secret society of people who are going through what I am. Amazingly, Emma’s story above could have been written by me. I am 37, married for 7 years, two young children. My husband has had his “drinking problem”, as far as I can tell, since he was old enough to drink. Basically, he will start drinking when me and the kids go to bed and drink until he passes out on the couch. From what I can tell, he was up to about a fifth of whiskey per sitting, sometimes drinking it straight. I truly fault myself for having married him, because in all honesty I knew that his drinking patterns were not normal well before we got married. Yet, I still married him. Why do we women do these kinds of things…marry someone who we darn well know is not right for us? His mother is a severe alcoholic, so I can only guess he is living what he learned growing up. Anyway, several weeks back, I discovered that he had hidden his booze in our family car. I totally lost it. It is one thing to hide the booze in closets, sofa’s, coat pockets etc. etc. etc. like he has done in the past, but the family car? He spent the night somewhere else that night and when he came home we had a heart to heart. I essentially told him I no longer wanted to be married to a drunk and he in turn actually admitted that he had a drinking problem and was willing to go get help. The following week he went to his m.d. for a complete physical. The test results came back OK so at least he hasn’t harmed himself physically yet. Then, he and I went to our first counseling session with a marriage therapist/licensed substance abuse counselor. The counselor was great, he got my husband to open up and admit how much and how often he had been drinking. The counselor basically laid it on the line to him stating that if he wants to have any kind of normal family life, he will have to stop the drinking. The counselor also suggested that he start AA immediately and that I attend Al-Anon. I attended my first Al-Anon session last week and fully intend to go to at least 6 sessions like Al-Anon recommends (to see if it is right for me). Yesterday, my husband tells me that he did not go to AA and has no intentions of going to AA and that he is not an alcoholic, but instead only had a bad drinking “habit”. He also tells me that he hasn’t had a drink in 2 weeks and has had no problem quitting drinking. That seems a little too easy to me. I have been asking him to stop drinking for years now and now, all of a sudden, he can just stop? Plus, I am still very suspicious that he is sneaking sips in here and there. So, here are my two questions: 1. Can an alcoholic just stop drinking cold turkey with no support? and 2. Is it normal to be so overly suspicious (all the time) that he is still sneaking sips of alcohol? I don’t have any concrete proof that he is doing it, just a gut feeling. I am hoping that the counseling sessions work for us because I fear I am down to my very last “one more chance” if you know what I mean.
Add me to those who thought they were alone and are so thankful to know I am not. I wish I had answers for all of you, just as I wish you had the answers for me. But it does help to read your stories so I will share mine. I have been married for 24 years, 2 kids – one almost 19 and one 13. My husband and I enjoyed social drinking — ok heavy social drinking; so I am not at all opposed to alcohol. About 10 years ago my husband was diagnosed with a progressive eye disease that has left him legally blind — now almost totally blind. He went on disability, and now “tends” to the home and kids all day while I work (by that I mean he only does what I refuse to do, and does that very grudgingly). I have had many issues with this but have tried to be understanding and patient. This was a difficult transition for both of us; and I don’t think we ever made it through. I became increasingly frustrated with his lack of initiative in dealing with his vision loss and pursuing information on how to function as a blind person (even using a cane for mobility — as he would much prefer that I guide him). My helpful suggestions gradually became less helpful and more angry. I felt increasingly trapped in the marriage — how could I leave the poor blind man with little money and no way to get around??? Anyway, one day an overpowering thought hit me — to count how many beers he was drinking. He had a friend that would stop by once a week for a few beers, and I knew he was bringing beer for my husband as I was not buying it for him. No big deal, as I said we both enjoy alcohol socially, and the contact with the outside world (other than me) was good for him. But what I realized was this “friend” was brining at least 2 30-packs of beer each week, and my husband was drinking at least 6-8 a day EVERY DAY; and at least 4-5 of these were during the day when he was alone before I got home from work. I was livid; because I already felt that he was not doing his share; and now I felt very used and that not only was he not trying but he was activiely making things worse. I told him I was going to leave. He apologized and cried and begged me to stay; so I did. We saw a counselor — of course he “quit” drinking just like that. However, nothing really got resolved, and he was content to let things be as long as I was still at home and not making waves. There were a couple of instances where he was with friends and came home impaired; when I made an issue of it he responded that he didn’t need my permission to drink and that it was no big deal. To me it was a big deal, even if he isn’t an alcoholic, the quantity he was drinking and the fact that he was drinking alone indicated there was a problem. I didn’t think he could just quit, just like that. However, it appeared as if he had because as far as I could tell no beer was coming in the house (his friend all of a sudden stopped coming over) and what was left in the refrigerator did not change. But, I decided to look a little deeper. He recycles aluminum cans, and I noticed that even though I drink a can of pop or two a day (I haven’t been drinking beer, kind of lost my taste for it!!), there appeared to be a ratio of beer to pop cans of 6 to 1. Recently I was able to accurately count how many “empties” were going in there, and there is 4-5 beer cans every day. Now I know he is hiding it from me which to me is huge — there is no trust left and feel so betrayed. I am ready to leave and met with a lawyer yesterday. I would be gone now if I had a place to live that was in my daughter’s schoold district. Any comments, suggestions, etc., would be appreciated. I feel like I am going crazy.
To Going Crazy-
Why should you have to leave? He is the one with the problem, not you. If I were you, I would start journaling, documenting and taking pictures to build your case. You may also be able to subpoena the counselor you went to if or when you go to court. Your lawyer should be able to help you with this. Otherwise, sell your house and split the proceeds. Surely you could find a temporary place. Perhaps your husband could move in with all those “friends” he has? I agree with you, once that trust is gone, it is hard to get that back. The only thing worse than a drinker is someone that hides their drinking in my opinion.
Still Suspicious – Yea, I shouldn’t have to leave. I guess I don’t want to believe that he is using me; and I want to believe that he still loves me and that my leaving would hurt him deeply. What I am realizing (with much help from a very good mental health professional) is that just because I can’t take it anymore; it doesn’t mean that it is all my fault. However, I am having a lot of trouble with the guilt of ME being the one that is about to DESTROY our family!! Letting him stay in the house is my way of handling that guilt I guess. Anyway — I will give a shot at answering your questions even though I am certainly not qualified to do so!! Question #1 I don’t think an alcoholic can stop cold turkey without support. Our spouses both claim they are not alcoholics, but only have a drinking “habit” — and we are the ones with the problem, right??? I think that someone that needs to drink so badly they have to hide their booze and sneak around drinking is not able to quit without help. They can’t get help till they admit they have a problem and not just a “habit”. Question #2 – Is it normal to be overly suspicious? It is normal to not trust someone who has proven they are not trustworthy. I would not call it being overly suspicious. You should trust your gut feeling, most of the time your gut knows more than you think!!
I read with interest the post’s that say why should I change, I am not the alcholic! The fact is; living with the disease of Alcoholism makes you crazy. I am an Alanon member and I can say with absolute truth that my behavior was just as crazy as my Husbands. Alanon is about choices, people in an an alcoholic relationship do not realise they do have choices. You can divorce your spouse, but I bet without going to Alanon you end up marrying or in a relationship with another alcoholic or addict. People who marry alcoholic’s usually have grown up with some kind of addidiction in their family’s, it is a family disease.
Whether you divorce or not, Alanon can help you change your behavior and it will change your family’s behavior, for the better! If you have children you owe it to yourself and to them to check out a meeting.
That is why (in my opinion) some people leave their spouse when they get sober, they themselves are still sick and need recovery also, that is what Alanon is about, recovery for yourself whether you are married, in a relationship, have a son or daughter who is an alcoholic or parents who were or are alcoholic. Alateen is for the children of alcoholic’s who are so affected by the living with the disease. If some kind of recovery is not sought for the children they are more at risk for becoming an alcoholic or marrying one.
I read all of these posts and none seem to be quite like my story. My wife just got out of rehab yesterday. This is her second rehab and also had a stay at a clinic for the mentally ill after “trying” to commit suicide all within the last six months. We have three children(7 and twin 4 year olds) and through these past few months I have taken care of them, our house, her medical expenses, and all the other turmoil she has caused. Just like the last rehab, she says she will never drink again. Now though, she is convinced she has to start all over including doing it without me. She says they told her and alcoholic is the type of person that “get’s to start over” and she seems to be taking that to the extreem. I think that no one get’s that chance. We’ve talked about divorce before but when I’m finally ready to do it, she usually changes her tune. I love her more than everything but my kids and am willing to go through this with her but she says she needs to do it alone. Why would she feel after putting me and the kids through this it is her desicion to leave us?
My wife has had progression of her alcoholism over 8 years to the point she has almost died twice in the last six months from respiratory arrest. After 4 invountary comittments–2 rehabs and each time promises to not drink and to follow her ‘program’–our family had 3 weeks of hope recently with my boys having their loving, responsible mother back–then she drank again–left us and nearly died again in a hotel. She is back confined to the hospital.
I have been forced by this disease of alcoholism to now file for divorce, Exclusive posssesion of our home, and sole custody of our children with my wife to only see them under supervised conditions ie. breathalyzer–I don’t know if all of this will succeed to protect me and my children but I will try. The legal process has just started.
My heart is broken for my boys and for my wife and me. Her disease of alcoholism has been progressive and unrelenting as any terrible disease that steals a person from you. It is a cancer with madness attached. It is terrible.
I know my wife does not want to be an alcoholic but it is a powerful compulsive disease that in her seems to have no end but eventual early death in her and robbing my children of a wonderful, loving mother they had for the first years of their lives and need her so much still now.
I and her family have given our best efforts to cover up, change our lives, isolate from others to hide the effects of her illness but it is too powerful to influence the progression it seems.
I do go to Al Anon and it helps me cope but I know it is not to change my wife–please pray for us and perhaps a miracle will occur to save her from this progressive horrific illness.
All of us on this blog have a common story–so much distress and sadness and disbelief in our situation of how our spouse can change from the person we adore to someone we no longer can tolerate or live with —alcoholism the great robber….
Reading all these comments has finally made me realise that I am not mad. All you people have been through what I have too. My husband has been drinking ever since i knew him. I only realised that he was an alcoholic when I stopped working to have my first child. We’ve been married for 7 years. He has stopped for a month in the past, but now he can not manage without for even 2 weeks. He refuses to go to rehab. He is in a partnership with his bother and is driving his brother insane as he drinks in front of the customers. He promises to stop, he says he doesn’t have cravings when he tries to stop and then out of the blue, he will come back from work drunk as a skunk. My oldest child is 4 years old and is starting to understand that there is a problem, so I know I have to leave my husband. I always said I would in the past and then given him chances to start all over again. I no longer believe anything he tells me, I no longer trust him and even if he stops for 1 or 2 or 3 years, I will always live in the fear that he will relapse. However, it is really hard to leave him as I really do love him when he is sober. I also have this guilt that if I leave him, he will get worse. I don’t want to make things worse for him, so in a way he is manipulating me. It is a vicious cycle, but it has to stop and the only way is to leave him. I don’t want to leave the family home, but he will not leave. I can’t get an injunction against him because he is not intimidating or dangerous when he is drunk. However, if I go through the divorce and we are still living together while the divorce is going through, he always manages to persuade me to stay with him. Is there any easy way of getting through this torment ?
Jelly,
You are right, none of us are “mad” at least not in the way that our spouses would like for us to believe (i.e. we must be crazy if we are the ones that think there is something wrong with our spouses drinking problem). Perhaps we are a bit distorted in the sense that most of us put up with far more unhealthy behavior than we should, for whatever the reason(s). I know I am definitely guilty of the latter. My husband has been “sober” for over a month now and he has been seeing a licensed substance abuse counselor. I can so relate to what you say regarding the fear of the unknown. Even though things in my household are seemingly going well, I still have this gnawing feeling of distrust (7 years in the making I might add). I constantly fear he will relapse or worse that he is only making me think he has quit drinking but is really doing it on the sly. I sometimes wonder how he would react if I brought home one of those home breathalyzer tests. I have yet to buy one for two reasons: first, he would obviously know I don’t trust him and second, maybe I am afraid of what the results would be. I do know that personally, I must do what is best for my children, whatever the outcome may be. I do not want my kids growing up in a household with active alcoholism. Truthfully, if I do end up leaving, my husband is reponsible for his life and his decisions. If he makes bad choices or hits rock bottom that is his choice and he will only have himself to blame. Jelly, think of yourself and your child and remember your goal is to make things better for you not to worry about how your leaving might make your husband worse off. Also with all of the evidence and witnesses you seem to have, I don’t see how a judge would make you leave the house. The ultimate goal is to provide your child with stability. Giving the house to an alchoholic and making the mother and child move out doesn’t seem like the better solution. Go see a good family law attorney and see about requesting exclusive use of the family home. You can also ask for a professional custody evaluation by a non-interested third party, that may be to your benefit.
On another note, I am interested to know if there are any positive updates to any of the stories posted on this blog. It seems like so many post once then we never know what happened to them????
Still Suspicious,
About breathalizers, you said, “…I have yet to buy one for two reasons: first, he would obviously know I don’t trust him…” While I don’t have any opinion about whether or not to get a breathalizer, I don’t think you should be hiding the fact that you don’t trust him. Has he given reason to trust you during his drinking days? As an alcoholic, I hear newly sober people complain that their loved ones don’t trust them. I believe it takes time and the alcoholic in recovery needs to earn that trust by behaving their way back.
I’m curious about the updates, too. As for me (JF), my moving towards the direction of divorce, and telling my husband of my intentions, brought him to see a therapist. Don’t know if it was the fear of losing me or something else that finally caused him to want to do something, but I will wait and see. I can’t leave him now, nor do I believe I should right now.
Peace.
JF
Thanks Still Suspicious for prompting — I check back her often I would also like to hear updates from people. As for me, on Halloween night my husband’s favorite drinking buddy came over. After he left and my husband was asleep, I went out to his garage and saw the ladder in the middle of the floor. I climbed the ladder, checked in the rafters (under a plastic tub) and found his hidden stash of beer. With that knowledge and observing the steady stream of empty cans — I confronted my husband again about his drinking. He adamantly denied that he had been drinking anything at all. I told him I knew for a fact that he was lying; and he did not back down. A week later, I moved out. I have also found a great website for support that you all may want to check out. It is http://www.soberrecovery.com. There is a forum for “Friends and Family of Alcoholics”; we are definately not alone!!!
I have read almost all of the comments. Last weekend I seperated from my Alcoholic Wife, or, to refer to it in terms she would not protest, my Wife who “uses Alcohol to manage her life, but does not have an alcohol dependancy problem”. We have been together for 3 years, shh has been drinking at varying levels since day 1, ralely “Blasted”, but drinking every night from the time we get home to the time we go to sleep,it starts earlier on weekends, and when we are out if town, drinking becomes “focus” of every vacation. Sicne she refuses to acknowledge her problem she also refuses to address it in anyway, no shock, right?. As soon as she takes the first sip of the first drink every day I am basically alone in the Marriage, she “checks out”.
I could write volumes about the problems it has caused but moist of the problems are eloquently recited in prior postings – but if I could convey just a single message to anyone sho is suffering like I have been suffering it would be this – trust your instincts, do not question what you know is right and what you know is worng about the way you are treated by your Alcoholic Spouse just because they tell you so. They are master manipulators who have only one goal in mind and your well being never even enters their mind – the goal is to continue to live the life they want, thier way, and continue to drink – they are not concerned with your life, or your needs, or your happiness it never even crosses their mind.
Trust your instincts – and set limits and boundaries. Don’t fall for the “control freak” speach, they all will give it to you, your tryign to “control” what they do – you know that in reality, you are trying to control your life, and the effects that the Alcohlohic has on it, not thier life.
I am sad, but also feel relieved. I have been thinking about leaving for awhile, finally got the nerve to do it – I feel like I am healing by the minute.
thankyou all, i have read every line of this thread, relate to all, i was with an A for 12 yrs, i first went to alanon 4 yrs ago only to be told he done realy well out of you! i quickly began to educate myself everything to do with the addiction (drug)alcohol, i studied psychology all in the interest of alcohol- i needed to understand the way i had become,distorted,isolated,phisically ill,crying all the time on my own,scratching my head until it was weeping and sore,i fell down the stairs the once because i could not think straight yes i done some damage! all i wanted to do was sleep all day and night, this all was happening 4 yrs ago, thankgoodness i had hit my bottom as it awakened me for i am here today to add on to this thread, i wont elaborate too much as we all know its an energy theif (mental and phisical) it is very painful when those you love are suffering a selfish existance unbeknown to themselves – think of yourself and children – love yourself and you will find the confidence and strength to spend the rest of your life doing whats right for you and not the A whom is the Master Manipulator. I myself am 42 and never have been drunk, only dragged down by my own emotions and stinking thinking until 4 yrs ago my life changed dramatically!! for the better. I will come back to this thread when i have time, love to you all.
please let me know why my thread as been removed?
Beats me. I don’t remember the thread. The only reason I ever intend to remove a message is my suspicion that it is spam. I routinely approve messages with which I vehemently disagree.
For every comment that I approve, I probably receive 10 that are spam, so it’s a never-ending task to keep the blog relatively spam-free. In general, messages that are very short may look like spam, and I may remove them simply because of that.
My husband has been an alcoholic since we got married almost 3 years ago. I knew that he had an alcohol problem before we got married, but I did it anyway, Stupid me… It has progressively gotten worse, especially when we moved away from his family. His mother just passed away, and was an alcoholic. I actually thought that he would stop drinking, and he did during the week we were home. His entire family knows that there is a problem, but they don’t discuss it with him. They tell me, and I’m like I realize that, but he doesnt’ listen to me. We actually started marriage counseling, and I thought that it was helping. The counselor, told me to accept him as he was, or leave him. She actually told him to start drinking in front of me, instead of hiding it, so that I could see what I was actually married to. I love my husband when he is sober, but I HATE him when he is drunk, which is most of the time now. I really want to leave, but I am worried as to what would happen to him if I do. We don’t have a house, and we are both students. He is never going to graduate because he drops too many classes due to his drinking. I work very hard, and I feel that he doesnt’ do anything. I feel like I am at the end of my rope. I don’t want to be a 27 year old divorcee, but it looks like that is where I am headed. He never used to drink and drive, and then this semester he has started doing that. I am in graduate school, and I come straigt home because I am so worried, I actually drive around the local bars searching for his truck.
I cry and plead for him not to drink, I have given ultimatims, but nothing works. He has admitted that he is an alcoholic, but refuses to get help. He actually went to AA once, but he said that it wasn’t for him. His dad actualy came for Thanksgiving, and I was like Thank goodness, because he never drinks when they are around, but this time was different, his dad actually left early, but my husband doesn’t believe that it was because of his drinking.
I really need help…but I am too embarassed to talk to my friends about this.
Annu
Then go to Al-Anon – http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html. You are exactly the kind of person Al-Anon is set up to help. You have become sucked in to the enabler role and seem to be performing it magnificently. Time to get off, friend.
To Robert of 11/20 post
What are the odds of stumbling upon a blog, reading all the way through, and then at the end finding someone who speaks so directly to my issue AND did it only a few days ago, not years before , so we might actually be able to communicate. I’d be thrilled to do so about my longstanding marriage to an alcoholic / prescription drug addict wife and pattern of being manipulated and lied to despite thousands in couples work and a nervous breakdown occurring as a result of the ANGER she expressed when I brought up divorce a year ago. I am the breadwinner…why is it so difficult for me to split! Fear, Loss, Hope, an ingrained notion that since it’s all an illness and I married her in sickness and in health???? I feel I want to hear more of the strait scoop from you. get back. thanks
This is Doug —-A follow-up to my note of Nov 10, 2007–the judge granted me Exclusive Possesion of the Marital Residence, sole custody of my 3 boys and sealed the records from public view (it amazes me that people could go on line and find out all the details of anyones life during a divorce unless the record is sealed by the judge in our area)—my wife was discharged (? left early) from yet another rehab after another 302 and swore while she was in there that all of her madness and erratic behavior was fro the ‘alcohol’ and her mind was now clear.
The reality of her not being allowed by law in her home, her sons not wanting to visit her as they were shocked when se showed up unannounced to my in-laws where they are staying 3 hours away and just ‘life on the outside’ of an instituion had her drinking within 36 hrs of discharge and so lost, sick and confused with in 72 hours at an inner city Greyhound bus station talking to whoever would listen to a desperate intoxicated woman. She called me to try and come back home–I called our county Mental Health Crisis team who met me and my wife at the bus terminal.
They were a God send.
They offered for my wife to volntarily go to a hospital for help but she (as always) refused–they saw how ill she was and right then and there had the authority to do a 302 involuntary committment of my wife to a lock-up psychriatric unit–the only thing that wil offer yet another chance for her to stay alive and somehow get out of this illness–she keeps hittint new “rock bottoms” but no matter how low we perceive her new bottom is–she can’t (?won’t) get better—she acknowledges her alcohol problem–knows it is the source of her disrupted and our and her parents and sisters’ lives but them blames us for ‘controlling’ her and ‘loving the power’ to place her in a hospital at $1000 dollars a day out of my and her childrens pockets—this is madness–AA and Al Anon says there is always hope as long as the person is alive for them to recover—I don’t know at this point–I keep trying –I keep crying–my heart is broken —no amount of love –no amount of anger–no amount of money –no amount of control–no amount of letting go of control–no amount of shame can seem to change the unrelenting course of this illness (?sickness).
Even though I have ‘legal’ control of our home and children she still was able to totally disrupt our lives within 2 days of discharge after another month of expensive rehab—where will this all go or end only God knows.
I am thankful for my extended family for taking my boys and keeping their lives as ‘normal’ and loving as possble even if it is in a city 3 hours away.
The court and healthcare system try their best to help but alcoholism and addictions baffle all attempts to help.
The County Crisis team were wonderful–they saved the day and gave all of us some piece of mind and got my wife to a safe place—reach out and there is help.
This may be somewhat of a rambling blog but it is how all of our lives are on this site–disrupted, confused and desperate—keep praying–keep in Al Anon;;it helps and you don’t have to just suck it up and not get divorced but the alcoholic doesn’t just go ‘away’ once the legal are in—they do an end run until they get better–even in death they will haunt us ‘only if we could have done something different’–cancer with madness attached.
Thank you all for your stories–they gave me the courage to follow through with the legals when I started to get cold feet and thought I might try to try again as I did before with my wife in our home–I chose to keep her out and for MY sanity it has been the best choice but it did not help my wife to recover–I didn’t really expect it to but I didn’t expect my wife to fully relapse within 2 days of hospital last week either.
Doug
USA
Doug! Wow, my commendations to you for being so strong and doing what is best for you and your children. You are certainly and inspiration to me and many others. You will probably get several months down the line and look back on all this and just feel like it was all a bad dream and wonder why you didn’t do it sooner. My thoughts and prayers and with you and your family. Keep us posted. God bless you.